Sound Devices MixPre Sound Samples Comparison (MixPre, 633, Zoom F8)
In this episode, we have three sound samples to give you a sense for how the Sound Devices MixPre-6, Zoom F8, and Sound Devices 633 differ. The difference is not big in terms of timbre or self-noise. Have a listen!
If you’d like to listen to the original WAV audio files from the recorders, you can do that here.
Gear used to record this episode:
Sound Devices MixPre-6 Audio Recorder & Mixer
Zoom F8 Audio Recorder/Mixer
Sound Devices 633 Audio Recorder/Mixer
DPA 4017b Shotgun Microphone (my pro-level outdoor mic)
Sound Devices MixPre-3 The "Little Brother" of the MixPre-6
Copyright 2017 by Curtis Judd
Zoom F-Control for F4 & F8 Overview
Zoom disrupted the audio recorder market for enthusiast filmmakers with their F4 and F8 audio field recorders in 2015 and 2016. The quality of these recorders was unprecedented at their price points (now priced at $600 and $900 respectively) I like both of these recorders so much that I bought both of them!
But one thing that is difficult to do with them is to truly mix while recording. The controls are rather small and placed in close proximity to one another. And when working on a dark set, they’re nearly impossible to see. That’s where the Zoom F-Control makes a huge difference and simplifies the process of making a good mix.
Also, we talk a little bit about what a mix is and why you care if you’re a filmmaker or Vlogger.
If you’d like to learn how to record and post process your sound, be sure to have a look at my sound for video courses at http://school.learnlightandsound.com
Visit us at https://learnlightandsound.com for more updates on how to improve your lighting and sound for video. Also be sure to subscribe to get new episodes every week!
Gear used or mentioned in this episode:
Zoom F-Control Surface (FRC-8) for Zoom F4 and F8 Recorders
Zoom F4 Audio Field Recorder (Price recently reduced to $600 USD)
Zoom F8 Audio Field Recorder
Sony MDR-7506 Headphones (my new favorite headphones for recording, but not for post work)
Price Drops on Zoom F4 and F8 Recorders, FRC-8 Control Surface Coming Soon
Many of of you know that I am rather fond of the two Zoom F series recorders the F8 and F4. For me they strike a very good balance between price, quality, and feature set. The preamps are very impressive for the price, the build quality is good, and they have the features that independent filmmakers need.
And now, somehow, Zoom has managed to reduce the pricing on the F4 by $50 and the F8 by $100. The Value to price ratio just got even better. Nice work Zoom!
Earlier this month, they also announced the Zoom FRC-8, a control surface for the F4 and F8 which allows you to mix more effectively. Larger mixers/control surfaces like this make it much easier to manage the madness that can occur during production. I have one on order and will be reviewing it a few weeks after it arrives.
I expect that this will be a big improvement over the iPad app Zoom has for the F8. While the app is great for metadata entry and setting the gain before shooting, I did not find it to work well when in the heat of a recording. Smoothly moving the faders on a touch screen just wasn't the same because they would jump too suddenly. The FRC 8 also allows you to connect a USB keyboard making metadata entry even faster. Can't wait to try the FRC-8!
Zoom F8 Audio Recorder Firmware v2.0!
As expected, Zoom has made a new firmware update for the Zoom F8 Audio Recorder with several nice additional features, filling some of the gaps we saw in the initial release! Let's have a quick look.
First, and perhaps most importantly, you can now set the potentiometer knobs for each channel to act as faders! This was one of the big missing features. And while the knobs are pretty small, its definitely nice to have the option to use them as faders without the fiddly process of switching each one (and I mean one at a time) over to change the fader level. Nice improvement.
False take: You can now mark a clip as a false take which will move it to a separate folder and reset the counter on the next recorded clip to the previous number. Another good little addition that will greatly simplify matters on production day.
Scene number advancement: You now get more options on how scene number file names advance. So you could select numeric or character options. Character option: Scene1 -> Scene1A ... Scene1Z -> Scene1AA -> Scene1AB, etc. Or a simple numeric option: Scene1 -> Scene2 ... Scene9999.
Trim ganging: You can now gang multiple tracks together and control their gain with a single potentiometer. Handy when you need to quickly adjust the gain on multiple channels at the same time while setting up.
And a few others:
- Change next track name
- Change previously recorded track names
- Show track names on level meter screen
- Take name format options
- Adjust the L/R track volume
- PFL solos tracks during playback
- Create sound reports
- Control shortcuts (e.g., show name of next track that will be recorded)
Nice work, Zoom! I was definitely disappointed when I found that the original firmware didn't let you use the pots as faders but you came through with much more than that!
Zoom F8 Review Wrapup
The Zoom F8 is an impressive sound recorder from a company that has been steadily marching up market with more and more impressive audio gear. Zoom popularized the handheld recorder with XLR input market with their original H4 Handy Recorder. And now about 10 years later, they’re going even farther up market with the Zoom F8. But is the F8 really a competitor to the pro-level sound recorders from Sound Devices and Zaxcom? Have a watch and we’ll give you my impressions.
Who is this device for? It fits my work as a one-man crew shooting corporate videos perfectly. I love the Zoom F8!
Zoom F8 Safety Tracks (vs. Limiters)
So as we discussed in the last episode, the limiters on the Zoom F8 are not as effective as you'd get on a Sound Devices recorder or mixer. This is because they're in the digital stage which can be too late if distortion results in the analogue stage. But there is another option on the F8 if you're recording 4 tracks or fewer: Safety Tracks.
The way this works is you set the gain on say input/track #1. Then a safety track of the same thing coming in on input #1 is recorded to track #5 but at a lower gain level.
I was afraid that this safety track might suffer from the same issue as the limiter but I am happy to report that the safety track feature works brilliantly with absolutely no clipping on the safety track!
And it works because it appears that the F8 routes the signal to two different preamps, with different gain levels. So there's an alternative to the limiters if you have a critical shoot that you can't afford to mess up due to unexpected volume from the sound source. It isn't as simple as a limiter, but its much, much better than nothing!
Zoom F8 Limiters
When I first saw the Zoom F8 audio field recorder prototype at NAB 2015, I was a little skeptical. How could they make a pro level field recorder for only $1000? Most of the pro level devices are priced at least twice that, and those with 8 mic inputs are often 3 to 4 times that. But the specs looked really, really good on the most important things: the preamps and analogue to digital converter.
So I put in my preorder and took a chance. What I did not realize at the time, is that the input limiters that should prevent clipping when things get really loud are digital instead of analogue limiters. This is usually a serious disadvantage and render the digital limiters useless because the clipping and distortion damage are done before the audio gets into the digital part of the recorder.
However, there's a reasonably happy ending: because the Zoom F8’s pre-amplifier and analogue to digital converter produce a dynamic range of 120dB, I’ve found that things generally work ok until you get the most extreme screaming, as far as dialogue is concerned. In this episode we take a closer look with an audio sample you can hear to assess how well the F8 does in cases where dialogue suddenly turns to screaming.
Zoom F8 Initial Impressions [video]
When I first saw the Zoom F8 audio field recorder prototype at NAB 2015, I was a little skeptical. How can they make a pro level field recorder for only $1000. Most of the pro level devices are priced at least twice that, and those with 8 mic inputs are often 3 to 4 times that. But the specs looked really, really good on the most important things: the preamps and analogue to digital converter. So I put in my preorder and took a chance. I’ve now been shooting with it for almost four weeks and I’m quite impressed with most aspects of this recorder. It looks like it will meet my needs quite nicely - corporate videos with a one or two person crew.
One of the big features for me, though some will scratch their heads when they hear this, is the DC power hirose input. That means I can power the F8 for over 25 hours with my Anton Bauer Digital 90 battery. Yes, it and its accompanying charger are ridiculously expensive but I have no regrets. Shoots go so much more smoothly and end up coming out better when I'm not constantly changing batteries on everything. That's one of the big drawbacks of consumer and pro-sumer gear. Their batteries aren't made to last through an entire shoot in so many cases.
What really impresses me on the F8 is the clean, higher dynamic range of the recordings. You cannot appreciate that difference until you've worked with a proper preamp like the F8's (and Sound Devices and Zaxcom, etc.)
Zoom F8: Good Enough for Pros?
Zoom's new F8 eight input field recorder seems to be aimed at professional recordists, location sound engineers, and professional sound designers. This seems to be the message from Zoom's marketing group.
And indeed, the Zoom F8 has many of the features a professional sound engineer would expect in a modern digital field recorder. But not all of what they'd expect.
First, let's define "Pro" for the purposes of this piece. By pro, I mean a person who makes the majority of their personal income as a sound engineer or recordist, or designer. By this definition, I am not a pro sound engineer. I'm a semi-pro.
Also, I'm only putting these thoughts down to help clarify things for myself and perhaps for other curious audio for film enthusiasts. I'm not setting myself up as the definitive word on this matter or any other. These are just my thoughts, from my semi-pro perspective.
From the perspective of this definition, most pros will probably not choose to use the Zoom F8 as their primary field recorder. This is not a criticism of Zoom and I am not saying that the F8 is a bad device that has no use for anybody. I'm just saying that most pros will find this device lacking in a few key areas that make it less than the optimal tool for their jobs. They are better served by Sound Devices or Zaxcom recorders and mixers.
Here is a list of features that the Zoom F8 has or does not have at present that may cause many pros to take pause:
- Cannot gang groups of inputs together aside from simple stereo or M/S pairs
- Headphone pre-amp produces colored sound that does not match what is recorded (fortunately the recording is much better than the headphone amp)
- No switch or menu option to toggle an input between line and mic level
- Pots only control gain trim, not fader. Cannot currently be set to control faders (though this could potentially be addressed with a firmware update)
- Pots are very small. Probably ok for setting up gain but not great for mixing
- Both the limiter and high pass filter are post fader and in the digital stage (this is possibly, though not absolutely, a problem depending on how much dynamic range is available in the pre-amps and analogue to digital converter)
- Not sure that Zoom has a service and repair department like Sound Devices and Zaxcom, two of the main designers in the pro field recorder/mixer market
These factors are things that are generally important to pros. Remember, these guys spend a lot of long days with their recorders and mixers. That they sometimes seem so picky makes a little more sense when you consider how much time they spend using these devices and the fact that their careers are on the line when they miss too many takes.
However, does that mean that pros won't buy Zoom F8s? I think that some of them would consider having one for backup purposes. Lots of pros already have one or another of the Zoom Handy recorders. They don't use the Handy recorders all that often but they can be useful sometimes.
And for those of us that are semi-pro, or one-man-production-crews, doing smaller budget projects like corporate videos, is this thing useful for us?
I think yes, absolutely!
The pre-amps on the Zoom F8 seem very good to me after the subjective tests I've done. The build quality is quite good. That I can use a proper pro-level battery like an Anton Bauer to power the F8 via its hirose input for well over 20 hours even when phantom powering multiple mikes is great. Timecode on the F8 is seemingly as good as a Sound Devices 744T.
So in short, just because this device isn't totally up to par for most pros as a primary field recorder, doesn't mean that it isn't useful for semi-pros and enthusiasts. I have no regrets spending $1000 for mine.
More to come...
Zoom F8: First Impressions
Just received my copy of the Zoom F8 field recorder yesterday evening and spent a little time working with it. We should have a final review sometime in September but wanted to give you my first impressions here.
Build quality: Zoom has been steadily climbing the build quality ladder and the F8 is a definite continuation of that trend. The body is a very solid aluminum and the strap brackets are as solid as can be. The selector knob that allows you to navigate the menus is a HUGE improvement over the silly little jog dial on all of the previous Zoom handy recorders. If we're being honest, that was the feature I did NOT like on any of the previous Zoom recorders. It felt flimsy and ergonomically, was not the quickest tool to get around in the menus. And when you're on a recording job, time is critical.
This new selector knob is as solid as you would expect on a Sound Devices recorder or mixer.
The power and menu buttons have a sort of clicky feel to them that I'm still not sure about. I think they'll be fine over time but only time will tell.
The battery and SD card doors are also very solid metal and the battery door closes with a finger screw. The XLR inputs are Neutrik connectors, an industry standard and always top quality. The external DC power hirose connector is a nice option for pro-level batteries. I connect the F8 to an Anton Bauer battery which should power the F8 for well over 20 hours based on the battery's "remaining time" readout which is usually pretty accurate.
Overall, the unit is smaller than I remember when I first saw the prototype at NAB in April. It is not as light as the more consumer grade recorders from Zoom or Tascam once you add batteries, and about the same as the Sound Devices 744T recorder I've used in the past.
The Screen: The screen is better than I expected and also includes an "outdoor" monochrome mode for use when out in the broad daylight. That is great because that was a major issue with the H6 recorder. The F8's screen also seems much higher grade than the H6's, easier to read and very bright. It also doesn't seem to suffer from the same issues when viewing off axis. Setting the brightness to 50% indoors in a brightly sunlit room, I had absolutely no problem seeing the screen. Haven't had a chance to work with it outdoors yet but will include that in the final review.
Controls and Menus: Usability is a big deal. If a device has a ton of features but you have to constantly dive into menus to access them, that can be a problem and makes working with the device less than practical. I sort of didn't love the H6, H5, or H4n for this reason. They all required a little too much menu diving and when that meant I had to use the jog-dial, it was not fast and not enjoyable.
The F8 seems to be better thought-out on this front. The biggest difference is the selector knob. The menus are similar but having the new metal selector knob makes menu diving a little less onerous. Also, I like that I can use the buttons to arm/select a channel, press the PFL button and quickly access settings for that input like phantom power, the limiter, and pre-fader mode. Nice improvement by Zoom here as well!
The potentiometers or gain trim knobs for each channel have a good feel and work well but they are small. I don't think I'd want to attempt to mix an 8 channel program with just these little pots/knobs. That's where the iOS app comes in.
The mobile (iOS) App: The app is surprisingly good! The only thing about it that made me scratch my head a little bit is that you have to install an additional little firmware thing to enable bluetooth on the F8. I can only guess that maybe Zoom didn't have final FCC approval when they went to manufacturing and perhaps that will be included in the next overall firmware update.
The app works great on iPad and reasonably well on my iPhone 6+. There are a lot of things to fit into the UI so it just works better on the bigger screen of the iPad. On the iPhone, it sort of switches between landscape and portrait orientations to make everything fit depending on what you're doing, mixing or changing settings. It works in a pinch but if I'm truly mixing, I'd rather do it on an iPad.
And that's a pleasure - a 9.7 inch screen dedicated to mixing works quite nicely.You can set the gain for each channel with a skeuomorphic gain pot at the top of each channel, mix with the sliding faders for each channel. You have nice large peak meters for each channel. You can punch the PFL button for each channel to toggle the phantom power or limiter. You can do just about everything aside from set up the recording formats and timecode from the app. I really like it so far.
Preamps and Limiters: This is where I need more time before I can really evaluate things. In terms of specs, the F8 looks top notch. Only more testing will tell for sure. In the recording I've done so far, the preamps appear to deliver in terms of sound quality and noise performance. They seem very, very promising. The limiter, unfortunately, is in the digital domain of the signal chain. In practical terms, this means it isn't all that useful. If a sound comes in too loud, it will pass unprocessed through the analogue preamp, through the analogue to digital converter and the damage is already done before it gets to the digital limiter. That makes the limiter pretty close to useless for preventing distortion from clipping. That's not a total show stopper for enthusiasts that are very price sensitive and have the luxury of doing retakes, but probably not acceptable for pros that make their living doing location sound.
Headphone Amp: for better or worse, this is part of the device that has gotten a lot of attention based on Jose Frias's review. At first I thought that the headphone signal was noisy. I don't think that's actually the issue after more time with it. But it doesn't sound as nice as what is actually recorded by the F8. The question is whether this is a show-stopper issue. So far, I don't think it is for me. Again, I don't feed, house, and clothe my family with location sound jobs. I'm a corporate video one-man band. And for that scenario, I think it works fine.
Other Features: You can use the F8 as an audio interface connected to your computer via the mini USB port on the left side of the unit. There are ASIO drivers for Windows and it works with core audio out of the box on the Mac side. It isn't the most intuitive device for using as an audio interface if you're going to feed monitors from it, but not bad for recording and listening with headphones.
Timecode! Woot! I haven't had a chance to play with it yet but looking forward to syncing it with my Shogun recorder to see how well that works. Zoom claims to keep time within half a frame in 24 hours which is pretty good. Gotham Sound, a professional sound gear rental house, did a test where they jam synced a Sound Devices 788T and Zoom F8 from a third timecode generator, then stuck both of them in a freezer overnight for approximately 10 hours. When they came back, the two devices were within .8 frames of one another. This seems to suggest that the timecode generator in the F8 is good enough for most professional applications.
The recorder has a 3.5mm stereo out for cameras and two mini XLR outs (L and R) along with adapters so you can send a stereo output to full-sized XLR cables or inputs. Need to test these as well.
Keep yourself subscribed to the updates over the next few weeks and let me know if there are specific questions you would like answered.
